Pre Show Packages

PPQ wrote:

Thats the problem with these internetthingsandthats. Too many people with too many opinions, you can´t do it right for everyone.

^^ THIS.

Plus it makes a difference how someone communicates their concerns. There is no room for aggressivity, threats or meanness. Social Media really brings out the worst in some people.

I think it's important to remember (and expect) that people are going to be passionate when it comes to a band they love. There's nothing wrong with being aggressive in one's arguments when it's something they care deeply about.

GlennR wrote:

I think it's important to remember (and expect) that people are going to be passionate when it comes to a band they love.  There's nothing wrong with being aggressive in one's arguments when it's something they care deeply about.  

Sorry, I disagree. Because there is a difference between passion and agressivity.

Hello there!

I think this has already been said but there is another way for them to make more money when they tour:  play longer and better shows.

I do not mind paying good money to see the National, the Foo Fighters or Springsteen because the shows last longer (a 2h30 set gives room to include rarities in the setlist ), the lights and / or the videos are top notch, and the bands play well.

Cheers,

Romain.

StitchesOnTheRadio wrote:

However, there are ways to fix that if people hadn't flipped out and just said it was a "bad" idea all over the Internet. I'm hoping they re-evaluate that and try this again but I have a feeling the reaction scared them off.

You're right, there are ways that the pre-show ideas could be fixed.  "People" saying "it was a 'bad' idea all over the internet" is merely feedback.  At the end of the day, the buck stops with the band.  They aren't rookies any more; they're on a major label and they have experienced, professional management.

If they believed in this idea and thought it was the best thing for their band, they could have continued to offer it.

--

I think it's essential to remember here that the decisions made are by the band.  Complaints about those who found this plan flawed, or offensive, or objectionable are misplaced.

I never really got a chance to read through the details of the packages, just saw the initial announcement and that an email about the discount would be coming and the next time I got a chance to check it was gone again. It's definitely something I would have considered to do for one show. I bought a preshow sound check package from the Dropkick Murphys once (this was for charity) and it was an awesome experience.
I will admit the price struck me as on the high side considering the ticket prices of the actual shows, I'd expect an add on/upgrade to be not more than 2/3 of the ticket price but then I don't know what extra costs are associated with security and what would have been included. And as has been said before, it's not that anybody was forcing me to spend the money.
Whether it was a good or idea or not, I think pulling it again so quickly was premature. If I put something out, I think about the pros and cons first and then go ahead with it. Inevitably, some people will not like an idea and typically there will be more people being vocal about something they don't like than the other way round. A few days later things calm down. It would have been worthwhile to give this a try for the fall and see how it goes. The only thing I can think of is that they were unsure about it from the start.
I think a lot of those among us who were interested in this option were just waiting for the email with more info and the discount and I usually don't even get a chance to do personal stuff until I am home from my job. So they got all the negative reactions first.
Regarding the fan club, I don't understand what the expectations are. I don't remember how much I paid but let's say around $25. I think that's an ok amount for the presale option and one track per year. I wouldn't really expect anything else and feel that was worth $25. If people want more perks included in the fan club (sound check, etc), then perhaps make the fan club $75 a year? That's still only $6.25 per month.

CluckyB wrote:

Fan club was bad enough, telling fans you have to pay $125 if you wanna see rare songs live is beyond dumb

This was my concern as well. Offering a pre-show experience of watching a soundcheck is potentially cool. Withholding rare songs and only playing them at these soundchecks is not.

This is why we can't have nice things guys.

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Regarding the fan club, I don't understand what the expectations are. I don't remember how much I paid but let's say around $25. I think that's an ok amount for the presale option and one track per year. I wouldn't really expect anything else and feel that was worth $25. If people want more perks included in the fan club (sound check, etc), then perhaps make the fan club $75 a year? That's still only $6.25 per month.

There were good ideas in this pre-show package (an early entry option; soundcheck recordings).  These are exactly what the fanclub should be offering, and yes, they could charge more for the club if they were doing that.  I think that would be more palatable all around.


As an aside: The presale option for the fanclub has little value - especially when they're emailing presale info two minutes before the sale starts.  And when they actually play a reserved seating (PNC) venue, the best seats are being sold not to the fanclub but instead as "official platinum seats."

The Angry Johnny Revue wrote:

This is why we can't have nice things guys.

 

I liked the idea of the rare songs and I agree with what has been said here already, some of their songs just won't make it on the new setlists because they don't fit in soundwise. So the idea of having intimate shows for a handful of people is quite interesting.

As for the price of it. I agree it is not cheap but there were a lot of perks included in the package. Much more than what many other bands offer for more money. And you have to keep in mind that all of these cost money, also things like having people at the sound check or early entry which some of you think doesn't cost the band anything. It does, starting with additional security etc.

And on top of that as Shelby said, if they would give packages like that away for a significant lower price, they would sell a lot if these packages and people would complain again that it is not exclusive enough.

Seems like they can never make it right anyway. I just hope they are not totally discouraged now and will still come up with new ideas in the future.

GlennR wrote:

You're right, there are ways that the pre-show ideas could be fixed.  "People" saying "it was a 'bad' idea all over the internet" is merely feedback.

If they believed in this idea and thought it was the best thing for their band, they could have continued to offer it.

It was hard to stand by this idea seeing how they were attacked personally for it. It was just an offer for fans which they thought people would like. Not an offense to anyone and certainly not the end of the world.

I am all for voicing concerns if there any - but in a respectful, constructive manner. And personally I'd wish that people let it rest a bit and think about all aspects of such an offer before lashing out like that. But that is just my personal opinion.

GlennR wrote:

I think it's essential to remember here that the decisions made are by the band.

It is not only the band who is invovled in such decisions.

enola wrote:

I liked the idea of the rare songs and I agree with what has been said here already, some of their songs just won't make it on the new setlists because they don't fit in soundwise. So the idea of having intimate shows for a handful of people is quite interesting.

As for the price of it. I agree it is not cheap but there were a lot of perks included in the package. Much more than what many other bands offer for more money. And you have to keep in mind that all of these cost money, also things like having people at the sound check or early entry which some of you think doesn't cost the band anything. It does, starting with additional security etc.

And on top of that as Shelby said, if they would give packages like that away for a significant lower price, they would sell a lot if these packages and people would complain again that it is not exclusive enough.

Seems like they can never make it right anyway. I just hope they are not totally discouraged now and will still come up with new ideas in the future..

You make some good points Manu. The thing that has bothered me the most is how ungrateful the fans have come across to the band. For the most part they seem to believe that they have a great loyal fan base. If I was them I'd be questioning that now and thinking there are some ungrateful but greedy people out there who just want it all their own way and the worst thing is that they got it when the link was taken down. Brian favourited my tweet when I said people had been overly harsh and that it was a good effort from them. That alone tells me that people in the band's camp are feeling a bit stung by all of this. What they will do instead now I don't know...

Jerseyrain wrote:

As the package gains you access to the photo pit I'm guessing there would be limited availability anyway, I can't imagine more than twenty

GlennR wrote:

Nobody knows how many were going to be sold.  The packages did not guarantee accces to the photo pit; only entry into a lottery for that access.

you're right but I'd already acknowledged this in an earlier post.

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All the guys in the band or at the label or whatever are trying to do is
make the fan club better for US and yes make a little money too.

glennR wrote:

This wasn't a fan club benefit.  It was open to the public.  
The fanclub is itself a money-making enterprise.  If these sorts of benefits were available to the fanclub, I bet they could charge more for membership.

Fan club members were to get 30%discount that's pretty significant. It is expensive at face value but that discount makes it a lot more affordable. For those that go to ten shows a tour I can see why they would cringe at the expense but then again do they need the pre show for every show they go to. I'm going to 3 this tour but I would only have been interested in one pre show package sheer lay for the novelty value and a nice change

enola wrote:

Seems lime they can never make it right anyway. I just hope they are not totally discouraged now and will still come up with new ideas in the future.

Let's hope so!

enola wrote:

I liked the idea of the rare songs and I agree with what has been said here already, some of their songs just won't make it on the new setlists because they don't fit in soundwise. So the idea of having intimate shows for a handful of people is quite interesting.

The band CAN play the rare or quiet songs any time they see fit. There is no rule that show must exclusively consist of uptempo songs made for crowd-surfing. They can challenge their audience. Play "Sweet Morphine" or "Break Your Heart" or "National Anthem" in the middle of the show. Brian talked about this very issue in one of the telephone interviews he did for Australian media before the show: he said they haven't figured out what to do about those sort of songs. I think with a little bit of work they can do this. There is no reason whatsoever for a pre-show soundcheck to be the only place to see these songs.

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As for the price of it. I agree it is not cheap but there were a lot of perks included in the package. Much more than what many other bands offer for more money.

The "this is what other bands do" argument doesn't apply. There are bands that offer these sorts of perks to their fanclub or charge less for these sort of perks. Both situations are irrelevant. It's the Gaslight Anthem. We care about what they do.

Quote :

And on top of that as Shelby said, if they would give packages like that away for a significant lower price, they would sell a lot if these packages and people would complain again that it is not exclusive enough.

We don't know how exclusive the band made it. If that was a concern, they could limit how many packages they sell per show (and advertise that fact).

enola wrote:

It was hard to stand by this idea seeing how they were attacked personally for it. It was just an offer for fans which they thought people would like. Not an offense to anyone and certainly not the end of the world. I am all for voicing concerns if there any - but in a respectful, constructive manner. And personally I'd wish that people let it rest a bit and think about all aspects of such an offer before lashing out like that. But that is just my personal opinion.

There was nothing wrong whatsoever with letting the band know that one disagreed with their choice. That is not a personal attack. The band is not infallible and they are always going to have people that disagree with how they do things or what choices they make. That's comes with being in a major band.

There is no reason for people to "let it rest and think about all aspects" of the pre-show offer. That's the band's responsibility to do so. I think that everyone can agree -- whether we loved or hated the pre-show package -- that the band did not fully think this idea out and work on the details before putting it on sale.

Quote :

It is not only the band who is involved in such decisions.

The band makes the decisions, and the band should be held responsible for the decisions. That's why they have lawyers, and managers, and a record company, and plenty of professionals working for them. They went out of their way to remind everyone that the pre-show packages were "100% conceived" by the band.

One thing that struck me as a bit tone-deaf was that they announced this three days after the email was sent out to fan club members apologizing for our experiences and promising "new initiatives and special surprises" - and then the next communication from the band was asking for another $85+ (with the discount) for an experience that many people seem to feel should not be commoditized. I can't remember at this point for sure, but I seem to remember that there was mention of things like soundchecks, etc. when they first opened the fan club a couple of years back. I don't know what the "market value" for that sort of experience is, but it's a bit of a thumb in the eye to acknowledge that you've in some way disappointed or failed your most hardcore fans - and to then ask them to open their wallet more just a couple of days later.

Divorce aint cheap folks (kidding...sort of).  It seems like the trend in corporate America is creating different tier levels (data plans, pre-order and DLC content in video games for two quick examples ) so why not do the same for the fan experience.

What's next, $250 to choose a song for the set-list?  Join them on stage for a song for $1000.  Have a slumber party with Brian for $5000.

Obviously I'm being factious, but it seems like Gaslight is notorious for milking fans for every dollar they can.

If they really wanted to reward the die-hards, over the past couple tours they could have invited the few people who are lined up 6 hours before the show inside to catch a sound check.

Jerseyrain wrote:

The thing that has bothered me the most is how ungrateful the fans have come across to the band. For the most part they seem to believe that they have a great loyal fan base. If I was them I'd be questioning that now and thinking there are some ungrateful but greedy people out there who just want it all their own way and the worst thing is that they got it when the link was taken down. Brian favourited my tweet when I said people had been overly harsh and that it was a good effort from them. That alone tells me that people in the band's camp are feeling a bit stung by all of this. What they will do instead now I don't know...

I have the same feeling, Alex.

I do not think that it was a bad idea..because there are other bands who offers sth like that with a more higher price and I feel so bad for the band that they cancel this opportunity now...they thought it would have been a great offer for fans..but apparently not....

GlennR wrote:

enola wrote:

I liked the idea of the rare songs and I agree with what has been said here already, some of their songs just won't make it on the new setlists because they don't fit in soundwise. So the idea of having intimate shows for a handful of people is quite interesting.

The band CAN play the rare or quiet songs any time they see fit.  There is no rule that show must exclusively consist of uptempo songs made for crowd-surfing.  They can challenge their audience.  Play "Sweet Morphine" or "Break Your Heart" or "National Anthem" in the middle of the show.  Brian talked about this very issue in one of the telephone interviews he did for Australian media before the show: he said they haven't figured out what to do about those sort of songs.  I think with a little bit of work they can do this.  There is no reason whatsoever for a pre-show soundcheck to be the only place to see these songs.  

Most definitely agree with all this. There's no reason to think that some old songs will no longer fit soundwise. Gaslight has always had slow songs, fast songs, happy songs, sad songs, etc. They should be able to play the new songs right along side anything off American Slang or Swink or Swim.

enola wrote:

Jerseyrain wrote:

The thing that has bothered me the most is how ungrateful the fans have come across to the band. For the most part they seem to believe that they have a great loyal fan base. If I was them I'd be questioning that now and thinking there are some ungrateful but greedy people out there who just want it all their own way and the worst thing is that they got it when the link was taken down. Brian favourited my tweet when I said people had been overly harsh and that it was a good effort from them. That alone tells me that people in the band's camp are feeling a bit stung by all of this. What they will do instead now I don't know...

I have the same feeling, Alex.

Am I the only one who saw more replies with thoughtful feedback than just insults?  I did not read them all for sure, but most "angry"comments I came across on FB were long-time fans who explained why they were not supporting this idea, telling their old gigs stories with the band, and how much they were disappointed by this move.  Of course they are A-holes who will just post: "this is a sh*tty idea", etc.", but there will always be some  of them whatever the band decide to do, or whatever album they release.

This however seems different, as I believe quite a significant amount of "reasonably minded" and supportive fans were really disappointed, if not hurt by this package idea, its price and its content.

Cheers!  

Romain.

From the latest Q&A with Brian:

19. I want to start by saying I thought the pre-show package was a GREAT idea and people reacted too hastily to a few details. Have you considered trying it again but with some kind of modification to the early entry idea? I hope you guys don’t abandon this all together because there are still a lot of us who would love to participate in something this cool.
StitchesOnTheRadio, NY
We are currently trying to rework it in a way that we feel addresses some of the concerns we heard.  For one, we're not including early entry.  And the idea is to have people come in, get a camera we made with the cover art that they can take photos with at the pre show, and they get a recording of the soundcheck.  Now, the songs we play at soundcheck is just like any other soundcheck.  We try stuff out, sometimes we play it in the show, sometimes we don't.  It's the recording to remember the event that we're thinking is the cool part.   We're also going to lower the price a bit, with the same discount for 45rpm members we offered before. Remember, it's also a new thing, so we might have special giveaways, or something cool on different days, it's an evolving thing.  And by all means if you don't want it, there's no hard feelings if no one buys it.   Also 45rpm members... I would like to say please bring your member card to shows from now on, because we are going to start doing random free things to members that are completely on the fly, not every night, but be prepared.  

The only thing I'd like to ask is that if we post an idea you don't like, please try to communicate it in a calm and thoughtful manner, we're not trying to hurt anybody or take advantage of fans, and we are trying to listen.

https://thegaslightanthem.forumotion.com/t5628-august-2014-qa-with-brian-fallon-about-get-hurt-and-much-more#181345

"and to then ask them to open their wallet more"

"Gaslight is notorious for milking fans for every dollar they can"

They're not asking fans to do anything. They offer experiences/bundles/merch that you have the choice not to purchase.


"For those that go to ten shows a tour I can see why they would cringe at the expense but then again do they need the pre show for every show they go to."
Agreed.