correct 'Elsie' vinyl pressing info

please don't shoot the messenger ...

here is the correct pressing info for 'Elsie'

[edited following updated details at http://store.sideonedummy.com/the-horrible-crowes-elsie-on-lp-pre-order.html & following a post at http://www.vinylcollective.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=general&thread=64157&page=9#ixzz1XJ6roKz3 ]


Elsie - SideOneDummy


Euro Presses

1st Press - 05/09/11
Black Vinyl - 1,500 Pressed - 12''
Bright Red Vinyl - 1,500 Pressed - 12'' (Independent Record Stores Exclusive)
(pressed at KDG, Austria)


US Presses

1st Press - 06/09/11
Black Vinyl - 1,300 Pressed [plus 10% known overrun] - 12''
Blood Red Vinyl - 1,500 Pressed - 12'' (Independent Record Stores Exclusive)
(pressed at Rainbo Records in Canoga Park, CA)

2nd Press - 06/09/11
Black Vinyl - 1,000 Pressed - 12''


All future represses will be on black vinyl; the red vinyl will NOT be repressed.

Apparently the second US press can NOT be distinguished from the first US press.

So............ I'm confused! So there's been 4000 black and 3000 red pressed already between both the US & Euro presses

19thirty wrote:

So............ I'm confused! So there's been 4000 black and 3000 red pressed already between both the US & Euro presses

yes - and it means there are four pressings to collect (if you are inclined that way)

Awesome. So the information I was given was incomplete at best (and flat out incorrect with respect to the different matrix etchings).

So will there also be no way to differentiate between a first press Euro black and subsequent Euro black pressings?

Shrewsbury_Stars wrote:

Awesome. So the information I was given was incomplete at best (and flat out incorrect with respect to the different matrix etchings).

So will there also be no way to differentiate between a first press Euro black and subsequent Euro black pressings?

I assume the matrix etchings are different, but they may not be; we'll see

I said you cannot distinguish between the first and second US black press; I don't know what the case will be if the Euro black gets repressed

steady now steady now wrote:

I said you cannot distinguish between the first and second US black press; I don't know what the case will be if the Euro black gets repressed

Yeah, I understood ya there, that's why I was asking about the Euro version. I guess time will tell. Thanks for getting this info.

Wow. Extremely shady.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't non-US folks end up paying insane amounts when ordering? All while they're pressing the damn thing in Europe anyway?

Far cry from the blatant lie that was "these are limited to 1500 and 1300" that we were told in order to get us to order RIGHT THEN.

fullcollapse wrote:

Wow. Extremely shady.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't non-US folks end up paying insane amounts when ordering? All while they're pressing the damn thing in Europe anyway?

Far cry from the blatant lie that was "these are limited to 1500 and 1300" that we were told in order to get us to order RIGHT THEN.

I know! I spent 55$ on shipping so that I could get it on black, which I then thought would always be distinguished as the first press, when I could've gotten free shipping ordering the actually more limited press somewhere in Europe.

Where did you get this information from? It seems to go against even clarifications from S1D who I'd think would know better than to mess up like this.

Sucks for the people who spent a ton on shipping thinking it was the only way to get the black. But I couldn't give a rats ass about the people who are pissed simply because its worth less as a collectors item now. Point of vinyl is to collect it, not profit off someone else's desire to collect it.

CluckyB wrote:

Sucks for the people who spent a ton on shipping thinking it was the only way to get the black. But I couldn't give a rats ass about the people who are pissed simply because its worth less as a collectors item now. Point of vinyl is to collect it, not profit off someone else's desire to collect it.

But collecting is based on collectibility. I've said before that I (and many others) have no intention of selling anything, but I don't want to have inaccurate information regarding my collection. I don't want to purchase something after being told it is X, only to find out that it is Y. So, my being pissed isn't that it's "worth" less (unless I was buying it secondhand based on the lower, false pressing number, when in reality more exist), but rather, I am pissed because as of now I don't know who/what to believe regarding my collection. I mean of course you don't have to care about my feelings toward my collection, but I'm wondering if a more accurate statement regarding your sentiment (and mine) is that you don't care about the people who bought it to flip and who are now pissed that it's not so limited.

If a person collects baseball cards, it's the same thing. Even if they will never sell, they're going to want to know how rare of a item they have, they'll want to have purchased it under correct pretenses so they will know what exactly they have. This is no different in my mind. I bought the record while being told that 2700 exist between the two colors, but now I am being told that 7000 exist. False advertising (as is the poster, but gee, how would they get away with not limiting it if they actually had to number them? but this is about the record).

Wasn't the original number for the red 1300? That's what I remember. Now it's more than TWICE that. And wasn't it "independent record stores only" while the black was online/S1D only? So we all jumped to order it, many people shelling out for shipping from S1D, and I am seeing people mention getting red copies in the mail. Someone else has also mentioned getting copies at Hot Topic, where they work... which isn't so bad, but that sure doesn't sound like "independent record store" to me.

I keep thinking back over this and trying to convince myself that it doesn't matter, but I just go back to thinking about how we all purchased something under the impression that it was one way, when in reality they lied about it, thus not selling us the item as described. Of course it has no bearing on the quality of the music, nor is it any fault of the band. It just makes me very uneasy that SOMEONE somewhere is simply not paying any mind to accurately describing the merchandise. If I didn't want the record, I could fight it--I ordered a black LP limited to 1500, and I did not receive a black LP limited to 1500.

With all whats gone on with the LP pressings and the non numbered posters , it really does make the jewel in the crown the 7" , as long as nothing changes there aswell.
As postage was so high to Europe , I wonder if there would have been much difference in cost, if they had used DHL or UPS , we might have got them on time then.

I'm losing hope that nothing will change with the 7". I'm kind of expecting a whole slew of them to be put up for sale.

"But I couldn't give a rats ass about the people who are pissed simply because its worth less as a collectors item now. Point of vinyl is to collect it, not profit off someone else's desire to collect it".
---------------------------------------------------------------------

I here what you're saying, but for some collectors like myself, the more value the item has, the more important and personal it is as a collectors item. I've never sold a piece of vinyl, not even once, but as a collector, a vinyl that is worth more because of its rare pressing number is naturally going to have more value to it, and that "value" is one factor (among others) which distinguishes how significant it is as a collectors item.

To me, the point is that SOD messed up on this, initially misinforming it's customers and then again when they provided clarification, it seems. I seriously would NOT have ordered the deluxe preorder bundle if I would have known this. Instead, I would have just bought the blood red vinyl and maybe THC t-shirt at interpunk (color white) and would have just disregarded the poster and 7 inch, as it turns out the poster is not that limited as led to believe anyway and it doesn't come numbered as stated (which also decreases its value as a personal collectors item). But as it turns out, because I tend to seek and collect the most limited/rarest color in a pressing, I ended up having to go and purchase the blood red vinyl anyway (in addition to buying the bundle package) as we were led to believe the black was the more limited option, which we now obviously know is not the case. It's frustrating and it's not right.

And let me also add that I haven't even recieved my bundle order and here it is and the album has already been released. I ordered the blood red vinyl yesterday from an independent record shop and it'll probably get here sooner. If it does reach me before the bundle preorder, I'm emailing SOD and telling them they can cancel my order.

CluckyB wrote:

Where did you get this information from?

The source of this information is SideOneDummy (though I formatted it).

How accurate is any such information? The vinyl info on my website has been verified where possible with the labels in question, but some of it is based solely on information compiled by someone else a few years ago. Unless all vinyl is individually numbered, there are no guarantees.

As for the implications of this information debacle, the most serious is that with pressings of the two US blacks being indistinguishable, they are now out of 2,500 at least, rather than out of '1,300', and that is a serious difference. The US (and Euro) black may well be pressed into insignificance. As for the red, no change there (out of 1,500), but there are now two pressings to collect (US & Euro, 1,500 each) instead of just one, and it won't be repressed! And it's a pain for people who collect only the most limited edition, as some will now have ordered the wrong one.

The red was an independent record store exclusive, but not, I take it, an in store exclusive. I had mine from Banquets in the UK. They are independent, but they do mail order via their website, even to the US (so get yours now!).

brucesboots wrote:

With all whats gone on with the LP pressings and the non numbered posters , it really does make the jewel in the crown the 7" , as long as nothing changes there aswell.
As postage was so high to Europe , I wonder if there would have been much difference in cost, if they had used DHL or UPS , we might have got them on time then.

Yeah but a HELL of an expensive jewel.

fullcollapse wrote:

CluckyB wrote:

Sucks for the people who spent a ton on shipping thinking it was the only way to get the black. But I couldn't give a rats ass about the people who are pissed simply because its worth less as a collectors item now. Point of vinyl is to collect it, not profit off someone else's desire to collect it.

But collecting is based on collectibility. I've said before that I (and many others) have no intention of selling anything, but I don't want to have inaccurate information regarding my collection. I don't want to purchase something after being told it is X, only to find out that it is Y. So, my being pissed isn't that it's "worth" less (unless I was buying it secondhand based on the lower, false pressing number, when in reality more exist), but rather, I am pissed because as of now I don't know who/what to believe regarding my collection. I mean of course you don't have to care about my feelings toward my collection, but I'm wondering if a more accurate statement regarding your sentiment (and mine) is that you don't care about the people who bought it to flip and who are now pissed that it's not so limited.

If a person collects baseball cards, it's the same thing. Even if they will never sell, they're going to want to know how rare of a item they have, they'll want to have purchased it under correct pretenses so they will know what exactly they have. This is no different in my mind. I bought the record while being told that 2700 exist between the two colors, but now I am being told that 7000 exist. False advertising (as is the poster, but gee, how would they get away with not limiting it if they actually had to number them? but this is about the record).

Wasn't the original number for the red 1300? That's what I remember. Now it's more than TWICE that. And wasn't it "independent record stores only" while the black was online/S1D only? So we all jumped to order it, many people shelling out for shipping from S1D, and I am seeing people mention getting red copies in the mail. Someone else has also mentioned getting copies at Hot Topic, where they work... which isn't so bad, but that sure doesn't sound like "independent record store" to me.

I keep thinking back over this and trying to convince myself that it doesn't matter, but I just go back to thinking about how we all purchased something under the impression that it was one way, when in reality they lied about it, thus not selling us the item as described. Of course it has no bearing on the quality of the music, nor is it any fault of the band. It just makes me very uneasy that SOMEONE somewhere is simply not paying any mind to accurately describing the merchandise. If I didn't want the record, I could fight it--I ordered a black LP limited to 1500, and I did not receive a black LP limited to 1500.

This.

Quote :

For the ubder vinyl nerds (i can say this because i am one) the first pressing of the full lenght LP on black vinyl is limited to 1,300 pieces. The records were pressed at Rainbo Records in Canoga Park, CA. The only other color of vinyl available on this title is the limited edition "blood red" vinyl that can only be found at independent record stores around the US, Canada and UK. The red vinyl is limited to 1,500 copies.

No where was it stated that the black vinyl was a "limited edition" or "only S1D/online". Seems pretty clear to me from that that only the black vinyl would be re-pressed. Also according to this guy here https://thegaslightanthem.forumotion.com/t3443-clarification-re-elsie-vinyl-pressings S1D said second pressings *were* distinguishable from the first, so I'm unclear why people are claiming they said different things.

I just don't buy the whole "rarity is important even if I'm not planning on selling" thing. But i guess everyone can collect vinyl for different reasons. I'm not trying to absolve S1D of any blame here, people just seem to be majorly over-reacting and a lot of peoples biggest problems could've been dealt with by sending a clarification email to S1D instead of making ridiculous assumptions like "The black pressing won't be avalible in Europe at all" and then acting all offended with their assumption turns out to be false.

CluckyB wrote:

Quote :

For the ubder vinyl nerds (i can say this because i am one) the first pressing of the full lenght LP on black vinyl is limited to 1,300 pieces. The records were pressed at Rainbo Records in Canoga Park, CA. The only other color of vinyl available on this title is the limited edition "blood red" vinyl that can only be found at independent record stores around the US, Canada and UK. The red vinyl is limited to 1,500 copies.

No where was it stated that the black vinyl was a "limited edition" or "only S1D/online". Seems pretty clear to me from that that only the black vinyl would be re-pressed. Also according to this guy here https://thegaslightanthem.forumotion.com/t3443-clarification-re-elsie-vinyl-pressings S1D said second pressings *were* distinguishable from the first, so I'm unclear why people are claiming they said different things.

I just don't buy the whole "rarity is important even if I'm not planning on selling" thing. But i guess everyone can collect vinyl for different reasons. I'm not trying to absolve S1D of any blame here, people just seem to be majorly over-reacting and a lot of peoples biggest problems could've been dealt with by sending a clarification email to S1D instead of making ridiculous assumptions like "The black pressing won't be avalible in Europe at all" and then acting all offended with their assumption turns out to be false.

thanks for quoting what S1D said in its pre-order info

the other thread provides earlier info from S1D which says that the matrix numbers "usually" show the difference; I have since heard there was no way to distinguish them; I will err on the side of caution, but we can all keep an eye on the matrix numbers

as for Europe, S1D should have stated from the outset that there is also a European pressing in both colours; I only smelt a rat when I saw my LP cover was printed in the E.U. which made me wonder about where the vinyl was pressed

all I was after was the correct info for my website, because I do try to make it authoritative, though I give no guarantees for the info

CluckyB wrote:

Quote :

For the ubder vinyl nerds (i can say this because i am one) the first pressing of the full lenght LP on black vinyl is limited to 1,300 pieces. The records were pressed at Rainbo Records in Canoga Park, CA. The only other color of vinyl available on this title is the limited edition "blood red" vinyl that can only be found at independent record stores around the US, Canada and UK. The red vinyl is limited to 1,500 copies.

No where was it stated that the black vinyl was a "limited edition" or "only S1D/online". Seems pretty clear to me from that that only the black vinyl would be re-pressed. Also according to this guy here https://thegaslightanthem.forumotion.com/t3443-clarification-re-elsie-vinyl-pressings S1D said second pressings *were* distinguishable from the first, so I'm unclear why people are claiming they said different things.

I just don't buy the whole "rarity is important even if I'm not planning on selling" thing. But i guess everyone can collect vinyl for different reasons. I'm not trying to absolve S1D of any blame here, people just seem to be majorly over-reacting and a lot of peoples biggest problems could've been dealt with by sending a clarification email to S1D instead of making ridiculous assumptions like "The black pressing won't be avalible in Europe at all" and then acting all offended with their assumption turns out to be false.

It does say "limited to," which means "this is all there will be." And even if S1D said the pressings were distinguishable... well, they also told us a few other things that happened to not be true.

I'm sorry you don't "buy" rarity not being important, but honestly, when it comes to collecting just about ANYTHING, what are the collectors' holy grails? Rarest items. A couple thousand dollars has been put into completing my gaslight collection, and I paid a high price for some of the rarest items BECAUSE they are rare. You might say I did this just to try to resell them based on their rarity, but as someone who loves this band more than anything else I will always have this collection with me. I did pay top dollar though because other people DID sell, and the bidding wars and high prices were based on some of these items not being one of 5000. All of the details that are listed on here are there because when it comes to completist record collecting, that's what is important. To say that focusing on rarity is pointless unless one plans to resell it would have to generalize to all areas of collecting; anyone that collects anything and hopes for the rarest item to come into their possession would only be doing so because they want to profit, not because they love what they do and want to own something so hard to to come by.

I'd love to think that sending a clarification email to S1D would deal with everything and straighten out all the confusion, but I'm not sure we could rely on that. It looks like someone else already tried and they were told a whole other set of information. Unfortunately I wouldn't be surprised if 5 of us sent emails and got 5 different explanations.

Like I said, I understand the frustration and see how rarity can matter to some people. And the not being able to distinguish 1st/2nd pressings is certainly a problem. I just don't see where the assumption that none of the first black-pressings would be avalible in Europe came form. And something like that could've been clarified with S1D. At least then if they gave you false information you could have room to complain,

I just emailed S1D asking them to send a guy here and clarify everything. Seems like if a bunch of us did that they would probably feel compelled to Also seems like that would be a lot easier than having five different people try and say "well S1D told me..."

CluckyB wrote:

Like I said, I understand the frustration and see how rarity can matter to some people. And the not being able to distinguish 1st/2nd pressings is certainly a problem. I just don't see where the assumption that none of the first black-pressings would be avalible in Europe came form. And something like that could've been clarified with S1D. At least then if they gave you false information you could have room to complain,

CluckyB, it's not about the first pressings being or not being available in Europe, it's about there being separate European pressings which nobody mentioned at first

Ok so someone just posted this on vinyl collective:

"just got a response back from side one and it appears that they are sticking to their guns for now and saying the first U.S. pressing on black is /1300."

Read more: http://www.vinylcollective.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=general&thread=64157&page=9#ixzz1XITxsGeo

This is getting ridiculous.

steady now steady now wrote:

CluckyB wrote:

Like I said, I understand the frustration and see how rarity can matter to some people. And the not being able to distinguish 1st/2nd pressings is certainly a problem. I just don't see where the assumption that none of the first black-pressings would be avalible in Europe came form. And something like that could've been clarified with S1D. At least then if they gave you false information you could have room to complain,

CluckyB, it's not about the first pressings being or not being available in Europe, it's about there being separate European pressings which nobody mentioned at first

Exactly.

As for the 7'', I have been told quite clearly that they are pressing only 330, and that there will be just this one pressing in the US and no euro pressing.

Man this is just crazy BS! SOD needs to straighten this out. Meanwhile, I still have not recieved my preorder bundle. I wouldn't be surprised to see them send me both THC and Chuck Ragan together (even though I ordered them separately) which sucks for me considering Chuck Ragan is released a week later! If they want to save costs and ship them together that's fine, as long as it reaches me Sept. 6, which it obviously has not. I ordered the red vinyl elsewhere as soon as I discovered that it was the most limited/rare of the two colors (although at this point who knows which color is rarer considering the vinyl collective response above, stating that SOD is now saying 1300 again). If the red vinyl arrives first, I'm telling SOD I want to cancel my order. Ridiculous!