I've gotta ask: Am I one of the few Gaslight fans who hates Frank Turner?

As in, I can't stand him. His music is annoying. From a poetic/language point of view his lyrics are crap (in my opinion). And he seems really arrogant (again going by his lyrics).

My sister is 'madly' in love with him and walks round playing him out loud on her iPod singing along so I've heard plenty of his music. I just don't see the appeal.

I don't get it, almost every other Gaslight/Horrible Crowes fan I've met seems to love him. His topic thingy on here has more posts then any of the other ones. Can anyone explain why liking one seems to usually mean liking the other?

(By the way, hate refers to his music not him.)

i wouldn't say i hate him, but i'm kind of relieved you posted this. any time i checked him out i thought the lyrics were crap. having said that i also thought he's probably a really good performer.

his lyrics are very different from Brian's style, but I really like them. The two bands definitely have a different vibe but I think they both have that folksy connection. Liking other bands connected with Gaslight depends on what you like gaslight for i think

DeathoftheCool wrote:

his lyrics are very different from Brian's style, but I really like them.

I find that it just sounds as if he's written a massive rant out, picked up a guitar and sang it. Same as if he had picked up any random novel. (Not Dickens. Dickens can be sung. Dickens took a lot of care with syllables.) I don't get the depth or emotion that I always think has to be there with good music. It just doesn't work for me!

AGoodTime wrote:

DeathoftheCool wrote:

his lyrics are very different from Brian's style, but I really like them.

I find that it just sounds as if he's written a massive rant out, picked up a guitar and sang it. Same as if he had picked up any random novel. (Not Dickens. Dickens can be sung. Dickens took a lot of care with syllables.) I don't get the depth or emotion that I always think has to be there with good music. It just doesn't work for me!

hmm, well the songs that come to mind with that description are some of his more political / "statement" songs, like Try This At Home, Sons of Liberty, or Love Ire & Song. My favorites are some of his more personal songs like "I Am Disappeared" from his last album, England Keep My Bones. I feel like on that album especially he did a great job with poetic lyrics and imagery. But I guess if you're not into it, you're just not into it. The personal ones may be more your taste though, like they are to me.

You're aloud your opinion and it's fair that you don't like his music, but the man is in no way arrogant. If you watch a few interviews you'll see that he's a very down to earth and humble.

His lyrics are superior to Brian's, and that's not a particular dig at Brian. Maybe you're a bit too young to 'get it'. Try see him live, he's phenomanal - with and without the Sleeping Souls.

Ha--I often wanted to start a thread entiteld: "Am I the only Gaslight Fan who is severely underwhelmed Fake Problems""?

Love his live show, but his studio albums do absolutely nothing for me. I don't hate him at all just not 100% sold on the guy.

ghosttocoast wrote:

You're aloud your opinion and it's fair that you don't like his music, but the man is in no way arrogant. If you watch a few interviews you'll see that he's a very down to earth and humble.

Like I said, that's from lyrics:
"You've got a generation raised on the welfare state,
Enjoyed all its benefits and did just great,
But as soon as they were settled as the richest of the rich,
They kicked away the ladder, told the rest of us that life's a bitch."

That sort of view never seemed that down to earth to me... Although song writers will vary their opinion in songs to real life. He might just write what he thinks people want to hear. * shrug *

AGoodTime wrote:

ghosttocoast wrote:

You're aloud your opinion and it's fair that you don't like his music, but the man is in no way arrogant. If you watch a few interviews you'll see that he's a very down to earth and humble.

Like I said, that's from lyrics:
"You've got a generation raised on the welfare state,
Enjoyed all its benefits and did just great,
But as soon as they were settled as the richest of the rich,
They kicked away the ladder, told the rest of us that life's a bitch."

That sort of view never seemed that down to earth to me... Although song writers will vary their opinion in songs to real life. He might just write what he thinks people want to hear. * shrug *

Yeah, i don't want to sound like I'm just blindly trying to defend Frank Turner but I think he's mentioned that he doesnt really connect with that song in particular anymore. It's an old one. Do you have other examples?

Daire wrote:

His lyrics are superior to Brian's, and that's not a particular dig at Brian. Maybe you're a bit too young to 'get it'. Try see him live, he's phenomanal - with and without the Sleeping Souls.

Very curious now! 'Get it'??? Brian's have so much beauty and imagery. Every word is perfectly placed to flow without the need for rhyming and syllables. (A lot of the time). He explores so many different things in each song and each one can leave you shocked and silent. I'm a poet in my spare time. I spend way to much time reading Brian's lyrics to try and understand how he writes and what techniques he uses.

ghosttocoast wrote:

Yeah, i don't want to sound like I'm just blindly trying to defend Frank Turner but I think he's mentioned that he doesnt really connect with that song in particular anymore. It's an old one. Do you have other examples?

To be perfectly honest: I can't remember any more. I would spend ages looking but I'm gunna surrender on that one. If I think of any others I'll be sure to say. That's the only one I know off the top of my head. It would also help if I could remember any song titles. Unfortunately my sister doesn't sing those too...

Frank refuses to play that song anymore though, for what it's worth.

I will say I love Frank Turner but I don't think he's ever put out a consistently great full length album. However his live shows are among the best I've ever seen and he has plenty of songs that I love.

Clearly, everyone has the right to their own opinion and tastes differ, but if you think he's arrogant, it's just plain obvious you have no damn idea what you're talking about.

I don't know a single musician who comes across as more sincere, open and kind than Frank. He manages to write lyrics and arrangements that are so poignant and honest without having to resort to over-poetic phrasing and deliberately complicated metaphors. He's able to write 'sophisticated' songs, but I'd say it's his rather 'straight-forward' style of writing that pulls you in in the first place.

Brian's style is obviously way different. Whereas he could write about a night out gone wrong with something like "the poison got mixed up with my blood/the chains broke and I slept under the stars", Frank could say "got shit-faced and strayed way too far/the lights went out and I pissed on the bar". Yeah, those are totally shitty examples that only show how much my imitation skills suck, but my point is that they're different, and one isn't better than the other. Besides, England Keep My Bones (his latest album) once more showed how versatile his style can be and my poor writing gives little respect to that.

Maybe he's just not your cup of tea, but if you consider his lyrics crappy and arrogant, you have some researching to do since you're off the mark bro.

I'll back off on the arrogant as my mind has gone blank of quotes since I typed that. I'm holding onto the lyrics are crap bit though. It takes no talent to write as he does and it often doesn't fit. There's too much 'simple rhyming' to try and make it flow. No genuinely 'talented' (if you believe in that) or skilled song writer that I know of does that. That is one of the areas where song writing and poetry differ.

Maybe my sister sings bad examples but none yet that I have heard have even whispered good lyrics to me. Sorry!

(I put in the (if you believe in that) bit not to be arrogant myself as it seemed when I reread it but because I seem to be coming across more and more people who disagree that talent exists. I just thought I'd throw that in so the post doesn't go off topic)

Well, I'm not going to paste heaps of lyrics in here, but if you're unable to appreciate the beauty and power of songs like "I Am Disappeared", "Redemption", "Poetry of the Deed", "Journey of the Magi", "I Knew Prufrock Before He Got Famous", "Reasons Not To Be... ah whatever. I can go on all night naming songs, the man's a genius.

loazis wrote:

Well, I'm not going to paste heaps of lyrics in here, but if you're unable to appreciate the beauty and power of songs like "I Am Disappeared", "Redemption", "Poetry of the Deed", "Journey of the Magi", "I Knew Prufrock Before He Got Famous", "Reasons Not To Be... ah whatever. I can go on all night naming songs, the man's a genius.

Choose one of those and I'll google it and read the lyrics with an open mind.

The burden of proving Frank Turner's awesomeness isn't on me. Besides, I'm at work

loazis wrote:

The burden of proving Frank Turner's awesomeness isn't on me. Besides, I'm at work

]

Have fun! I'm meant to be studying... But hey... Maths will pass itself Hopefully...

AGoodTime wrote:

I'll back off on the arrogant as my mind has gone blank of quotes since I typed that. I'm holding onto the lyrics are crap bit though. It takes no talent to write as he does and it often doesn't fit. There's too much 'simple rhyming' to try and make it flow. No genuinely 'talented' (if you believe in that) or skilled song writer that I know of does that. That is one of the areas where song writing and poetry differ.

Maybe my sister sings bad examples but none yet that I have heard have even whispered good lyrics to me. Sorry!

(I put in the (if you believe in that) bit not to be arrogant myself as it seemed when I reread it but because I seem to be coming across more and more people who disagree that talent exists. I just thought I'd throw that in so the post doesn't go off topic)

I'm no Frank Turner lyric expert but I''m a fan and yet I can see your point. I'd say he's very different from Brian first off, and given how amazing Brian is at writing with beautiful imagery, it's easy to dismiss someone who is more direct like Frank. BUT that said there is value in how direct he is. It's raw and honest and the rhyming, well most artists do that anyway. So I'd say he's just not your thing, which is cool. He's not my favorite either but I saw him open for Gaslight and it was probably the best opener I've seen (This statement will no longer be valid once I see Dave Hause open for TGA).

I forget who said he's a better writer than Brian. THAT I disagree with.

It's really all Brian's fault. He set the lyric writing bar too high.

I don't 'hate' Frank Turner, but I do find him fantastically underwhelming.

I bought the album with the black cover (can't remember the name) and listened a fair bit, as with England Keep My Bones. They just leave me with no desire to return, there's nothing interesting about it.

StitchesOnTheRadio wrote:

(This statement will no longer be valid once I see Dave Hause open for TGA).

Going off topic for a second: Dave Hause opening for Gaslight???!!! WOW. Damn you! That sounds like possibly the best concert ever.

tempted to delete this thread due to Blasphemy

Its perfectly reasonable that you dont enjoy Frank's lyrics, they are very different from Brian's style of songwriting. Most of the people that don't like Turner's music give mainly the same reasons, the songs come across as simplistic and poorly crafted. It is true that his lyrics are much more direct but that does not mean they are not full of amazingly well-thought details. He has a line that goes "lets be 1905 but not 1917" which is a very complex political statement that few are able to write. The journey of the Magi is, in my opinion, one of the best written songs.

Again maybe you like metaphor and stylistic tools rather than straight-forward lyrics, but give it a try and keep in mind that writing simple songs is a very very very complex task. Sometimes lyrics sound amazing but they turn out to be just crappy sentences that dont make sense, when you are writing direct lyrics everything has to be in the right place.