the 'Mary Ann' song leak (reactions)

From Brian's blog


FRIDAY, JULY 1, 2011

Radio Radio
Dear DJ... please do not put music on the internet that you know you're not supposed to.
For once can someone have the respect of an artist or band to let them release their creation in it's entirety when they deem it ready? I understand people are excited, but if I was waiting for a movie to come out, why would you want to download a chapter of the whole? You'll miss the point and you'll miss the intent of the whole. When a single is officially released, it's like a trailer... it's thought over, and it represents a mood or a sum of the parts... it's a statement.
If you respect us at all and our music, please don't download or listen to anything that's not official. Especially not when you take an MP3 stream, hook up coaxial cable and run it through a board and broadcast it. It sounds like garbage, and I know Myself, Ian, and Ted certainly didn't agonize over the sound of the record to have it played through a tin can telephone. The internet is great for somethings... but it's taking the magic out of music. There's no surprise and no mystery of art when people take it upon themselves to do things.

Very unfortunate :/

I feel sorry for Brian, Ian and all the other people involved. They shouldn't worry too much though, I don't think the fans feel like the 'magic' has been taken away or anything. I think I speak for almost everyone here when I say that we're insanely stoked for the record and can't wait to get our hands on the actual, mysterious, crazy, heart-breaking, tears-inducing, breathtaking pre-ordered albums that will tumble through our mailboxes and be amazed by the piece of art they've created ^^

loazis wrote:

Very unfortunate :/

I feel sorry for Brian, Ian and all the other people involved. They shouldn't worry too much though, I don't think the fans feel like the 'magic' has been taken away or anything. I think I speak for almost everyone here when I say that we're insanely stoked for the record and can't wait to get our hands on the actual, mysterious, crazy, heart-breaking, tears-inducing, breathtaking pre-ordered albums that will tumble through our mailboxes and be amazed by the piece of art they've created ^^

Couldn't agree more

Gaslight23 wrote:

loazis wrote:

Very unfortunate :/

I feel sorry for Brian, Ian and all the other people involved. They shouldn't worry too much though, I don't think the fans feel like the 'magic' has been taken away or anything. I think I speak for almost everyone here when I say that we're insanely stoked for the record and can't wait to get our hands on the actual, mysterious, crazy, heart-breaking, tears-inducing, breathtaking pre-ordered albums that will tumble through our mailboxes and be amazed by the piece of art they've created ^^

Couldn't agree more

+1

loazis wrote:

Very unfortunate :/

I feel sorry for Brian, Ian and all the other people involved. They shouldn't worry too much though, I don't think the fans feel like the 'magic' has been taken away or anything. I think I speak for almost everyone here when I say that we're insanely stoked for the record and can't wait to get our hands on the actual, mysterious, crazy, heart-breaking, tears-inducing, breathtaking pre-ordered albums that will tumble through our mailboxes and be amazed by the piece of art they've created ^^

+2

What I would add to this debate over music and songs being leaked is a point I feel is slightly overlooked however. I think it was announced at the end of May that the record was completed yet the release date is not until September 6th. I know a lot of people especially everyone on this forum is extremely excited to hear the album and therefore to me it is not surprising that people are wanting to release it for the public to hear. I know there are issues with marketing and mass production and so on but surely the album could be released sooner and then nobody would be tempted to leak any of the songs as then there would not be such a big gap to wait for the whole album to be officially released.

Now don't get me wrong I'm not defending the DJ at all, what he did was wrong and I for one want to listen to the album in its entirety and I can understand Brian's frustration at this leak. As a song has been leaked already at this early stage though I wouldn't be surprised if more ends up coming out before release day which is still not for another 9 weeks. I just wonder whether the album could be released any sooner to avoid more of the songs being leaked?

Why would a professional DJ risk his career this way?

I don't get it.

Christophe wrote:

I think it was announced at the end of May that the record was completed yet the release date is not until September 6th.

I know there are issues with marketing and mass production and so on but surely the album could be released sooner and then nobody would be tempted to leak any of the songs as then there would not be such a big gap to wait for the whole album to be officially released.

I think that one is quite easy to answer.
First: I don't know anything about production. But I assume it takes some time to actually press CDs and vinyls, as well as to finish all the artwork that comes with it.
Second: You mentioned already marketing. Which I think is a valid point. Since both Brian and Ian are currently on tour in Europa they don't have a chance to do any promotion right now (maybe they even deserve a break after the tour ). If you want a braod marketing support you build up a full package. I assume the promotion start will go hand in hand with the release of the single.
Third: They're gonna tour the album on the Revival tour starting end of September. Why would they want to release the album right now and then tour it months later.

In the times of the internet there will always be leaks which is really a pity and disrespectful to the artist. But I guess there are a lot of people outside that need to prove that they have something others don't have. I hope that doesn't lead to less trust and therefore less information being posted (like THC did with posting lyrics and keeping us updated on the production process).

Since I'm not working in the music industry I don't know how much time is needed to release a record. So I'm just gonna trust the people who know. In this case Brian, Ian and Ted. And respect the way they want to release their music.

Yeah enola I'm pretty much the same I don't know the music industry that's why I guess it seems like a long time to waitfor me. It's also a good point about the Revival Tour being in September then it obviously makes sense to release it just before then. It is true that Brian and The Gaslight Anthem are one of the few bands I follow who share so much information with their fans and keep them updated constantly. I really respect and appreciate that about them and I hope that they can continue to keep fans in the loop without jeopardising their visions for the music and art they are creating.

I don't think all these info about the album were just to tease the fans or just for the sake of marketing, I really appreciate instead how they wanted us to know how much effort they're putting in this.
Plus five months is REALLY not a big deal, I waited like two years for the strokes'new album, just to name one, and no one heard anything before zane lowe played the single so yeah I guess it's just a matter of respect.

plugga wrote:

I really appreciate instead how they wanted us to know how much effort they're putting in this.

Totally agree with you here!

I'm sure it's disappointing for Brian and Ian to find out a song leaked and people aren't experiencing the new music as they intended but it shouldn't be a huge surprise. The '59 Sound and American Slang both leaked almost 2 months early. At some point, they have to question the distribution methods they and the label use to preview things. There's only one way to avoid having it leak this far in advance and that's to not share it with anyone, period, until they're ready for it to hit public airwaves. Especially not via some supposedly secure online stream. That means no press, no DJs, no one. Someone's always going to be that guy and post a song (or the album) in the name of "sharing new music" just because people are excited to hear it.

The whole 'marketing' excuse is bullshit. What marketing would be done for it? Some interviews and acoustic performances? All that sort of stuff can be done on the road. On a small label like S1D a lot of the marketing of stuff like this is spreading word online, and let's face it, A LOT of people know about this record.
The only offline marketing I can think of right now that would be viable is some billboards, outdoor ads and magazines and they could all be done reasonably quickly once the artwork is done.
I would imagine the long cool off between completion and release might be down to contracts or red tape.


As for the song, I thought it was a bit 'meh'. It had a 'classic' rock vibe like Led Zeppelin or The Rolling Stones which I was never much into. Having said that, I didn't like American Slang when it first previewd and now it's one of my favourites.

I don't see why the don't just release it.

What's the 2 month wait going to accomplish? It's not as if there's going to be a HUGE radio single and push for it to get played all over the airwaves, thus driving huge sales the day it comes out..

If it's ready, share it with the world!

I'm not sure I see what the big deal is. Most people would call that free publicity.

I understand his point about artistic integrity but there is a point where artistic integrity becomes more of an egocentric endeavor because of marketing and record sales. It's not the listeners job to listen to a record in context to anything. Music isn't like a movie; trailers and even whole scenes are released online from not yet released movies out of context. The analogy doesn't work. It's not about context or even artistry; its about money.

The consumer may not always act rationally and reasonably and break the law and own the music without paying for it, but they are often held at ransom. Huge fans like ourselves buy the album without even thinking, but someone who isn't so sure doesn't even get to taste the full product. 1:30 second clips are offered to preview a track, but in Brian's own definition wouldn't that be taking the work out of context? Consumers aren't allowed to even listen to the full work without having to purchase it, in a perfect world. You only experience a portion of the song. It's contradictory.

It's fine if Brian doesn't want it released so soon because it hurts sales, but he shouldn't be up in arms over his artistic integrity. Art has nothing to do with sales and everything to do with the work itself. The song "Mary Ann" doesn't stop being art or decline in value because it was played without the authors permission. Authors don't see pennies when their books are checked out in libraries. Be appreciative and take a step back and be in wonder that your artistic merit allows you to be noticed in a world of anonymous artists.

I really do love everything Brain and these guys do but if you speak as an artist from the standpoint that the songs reign philosophically over the idea that they are a profitable product, then this is kind of being blown out of proportion.

I know I'm taking an unpopular point of view here but I think if you look at this situation and a million situations before this one regarding the worth of art as a product vs its worth as a piece of culture in an age dominated by technology its lends itself to some interesting philosophical debates about what art, a largely amorphous thing, really is and if it can be traded on an open market.

Obviously I'm leading to towards being a devils advocate here; the DJ shouldn't have done what he did. But when looked at truthfully and from unbiased eyes it at the very least brings up some interesting questions. And I don't think theyre going away.

i think what we're all overlooking hear is the significance of TGA still being on tour. think about it; if you're the lead singer of a band and you're about to embark on a side project, you're going to be sensitive about drawing attention away from you're main band. i think that's why the release date is so far away, so that it wouldn't take any of the thunder away from gaslight.

that's also why brian has said before that he'll never do solo album, and why he made a point of stressing in his blog that gaslight is still his priority. he's wary of trying to be bigger than the band.

In regards to marketing - these things do take time. It takes time for production and shipping of the physical disks and vinyl. It takes time to design the art work, take pictures, print the work, etc... Personally, it took about a month to get the design done of the cd and vinyl. Printing will take another 3 weeks and that does not count getting this to the stores.

Then you want to do a preorder special - again, printing galore especially if you do a screen printed poster, a shirt, or those nifty 7" packages we did for Tumblin' Dice. Those took FOREVER to get done. I personally have been working for about three months on the artwork for different pieces of this album and I am not even close to being done. This means something special for you all when the album gets released properly in September. Want the album earlier - no goodies. And trust me, they are goodies. SideOne is treating this right!

And then you need to get things overseas, into the distribution system, get copyrights, do PR, interviews, etc... So yeah, this takes 5 months on average. Doing things on the road just makes being on the road horrible (no pun intended). Considering that 1) they are touring with Gaslight and 2) they are already doing interviews, side performances, handling life stuff and planning for the future, doing sound checks, writing new songs, traveling on a bus, trying not to go insane, and all the other things that take up massive amounts of time.

No, if your work is in the library you do not get paid for it each time it is check out but you do get paid for the book at the beginning. If it is a good book the library pays for multi-copies. The book also is released how you want it - they don't release it early, they don't tear out pages, they don't sharpie it where they don't like passages. If anything, they just ban it. Libraries are extremely above the board.

SideOneDummy does a TON of marketing offline.They do do billboards, posters in clubs, magazine ads, instore promotion, alternate versions of records, etc... People who think they can/should do it online over think the value of the internet. All these things take time.

This is a bit rambling of a response but thought some of this needed to be said. I am responding because I can offer a different perspective - one that maybe knows 1/25th of what it actually takes to getting this stuff out. If you really love the band, I would think you would respect what Brian and Ian would want.

Thanks El Jefe ... if that post doesn't clarify things then I really don't know what would

It sounds like we're up for some very fine release packages and I'm excited for all the things to come.
But now I'm actually getting a bit nervous that preorder starts while I'm on holidays with very limited internet access. Thanks for that

Thanks El Jefe. I know we all want to hear the new record now but let's just sit back and wait for Ian, Brian, Side 1 et al to give us the whole package (goodies and all) for Elsie that we all deserve.

I understand that there is a lot of work that goes into all this and I don't want to put all that down, because I appreciate it.

But what the fuck is the big deal with a finished song being played on the radio (in what seems like almost a mistake, or at least he wasn't aware of what he was doing) that Brian needs to get in a real fuss about and probably cost this guy his job. And then on top of it say that his artistic integrity has been compromised. It's just kind of a silly thing to get your feathers ruffled about.

Once again, as an artist myself I understand that as soon as the work is "done" everything is out of my hands. Lit magazines have never asked me if I had a preference on what issue my work would appear in, or if work I sent in had any significance to the other work I sent in that wasn't accepted. Context is something that isn't considered. I could explain a poem to a reader 1000 times over and whatever context I had in mind might be either over the readers head or they simply may not care. I just want to listen to some music by one of my favorite musicians of all time. What context Brian has in mind doesn't really apply. I've listen to the song nearly 30 times now and its just a fun song to listen to so I know I'll be listen to it by itself, without context, when the album comes out proper. It makes no difference if it was yesterday or on september 6. There is no guaranteed respect to the context for the patrons of your art.

I think it's just ridiculous to be apologizing or feeling bad that we heard a song that we will eventually buy, in several different versions. Kinda weird coming from a guy that considers himself a child of the punk rock attitude. It's music, not the Constitution. Context isn't a law.

But like I said before, I love Brian and Gaslight and everybody who's ever been involved but it's just a bit annoying when such a big fuss is made about something as trivial as artist integrity, which as I've kind of said before doesn't really exist outside of yourself, the artist.

Being upset that a profit is lost is one thing, but using artistry as the reason is a shame. Artists have no rights other than the rights to the the actual work, not to how it gets interpreted.

i get it. i think the main idea is that a DJ should only play songs they are supposed to play. i dont' know anything about DJ'ing but i would guess that that is one of the main ideas of DJ'ing. Brian and Ian and Co. worked hard on this record and to have it released bit by bit, unceremoniously, sort of devalues the record as a whole. i get that. i mean, don't get me wrong, i've downloaded songs before they were available, because i couldn't wait! but i completely understand how the artist would upset about songs leaking. it should be a mutual respect kind of thing between them and the DJ's and it's obviously not. of course Brian is glad that people are excited that fans want to hear the record. That doesn't mean they aren't disappointed that the record leaked in a way they did not intend.

"artists have no rights other than the rights to the actual work", which first of all, sucks, and second of all, perhaps they feel that the record experienced in from beginning to end is the point, not picked from song by song. anyways fuck all, whatever, the point is, he is the "artist" in this case, if the artist did not exist, the whole industry of selling music would not exist, expressing some appreciation for the artist him/her self should not be too much to ask. brian's not a dancing fucking monkey

Gaslight23 wrote:

From Brian's blog

FRIDAY, JULY 1, 2011

Radio Radio
Dear DJ... please do not put music on the internet that you know you're not supposed to.
For once can someone have the respect of an artist or band to let them release their creation in it's entirety when they deem it ready? I understand people are excited, but if I was waiting for a movie to come out, why would you want to download a chapter of the whole? You'll miss the point and you'll miss the intent of the whole. When a single is officially released, it's like a trailer... it's thought over, and it represents a mood or a sum of the parts... it's a statement.
If you respect us at all and our music, please don't download or listen to anything that's not official. Especially not when you take an MP3 stream, hook up coaxial cable and run it through a board and broadcast it. It sounds like garbage, and I know Myself, Ian, and Ted certainly didn't agonize over the sound of the record to have it played through a tin can telephone. The internet is great for somethings... but it's taking the magic out of music. There's no surprise and no mystery of art when people take it upon themselves to do things.

Clearly the DJ shouldn't have played it. What I don't understand though is why so many people (presumably) have to have access to the audio preview this far in advance, to the point of even being allowed to publish a review. Is that really necessary, as it increases the risk of leakes?

As for Brian's commnets, and in all friendship, I do have two issues.

1) The trailer/movie analogy really only works for the first time you hear the album, as with any concept album (which it is almost presented as). After that you can skip and shuffle all you like. In fact, that's where the movie analogy comes back in, because with DVDs too you can skip and just watch the scenes you like.

2) As for agonising over the sound, here the analogy is arguably with an artist who finds their multi-media collage reproduced on a museum postcard. People will in any event play this record through cheap earphones, on crummy old car stereos, etc. Hardly anyone will hear it the way Brian, Ian and Ted did.

Lastly, given the importance of context, I wonder if this means that on the Revival Tour we will only get the trailers and on the Horrible Crowes mini tour we will get all the songs in order.

i wish i was sober enough to write eloquent words like "lastly" ...or to read an entire one of your sentences.

I just find it disappointing that Brian as an artist is missing the point here. I've heard a million different interviews with him where he says more or less "I don't give a fuck about what people think of my music anymore. Were gonna write whatever we want to write." But now the big deal is how we the listeners are hearing it. That's what I mean when I say artists have no rights. Once the thing is finished, which it is, and it gets put on tangible mediums, how it gets interpreted is up the listener. Artists intent gets dwarfed by listener interpretation. Bruce Springsteens Song "Born in the USA" is the perfect example. It was used by the Reagan Administration during his campaign even though the song is a protest song. They just listened to the chorus apparently. Out of Context. Because you need not have context as a listener.

Also, what about the thousands of people who are lukewarm to Brian and see his new album and buy a handful of songs off iTunes. Context gone. Another hole in the "COntext makes the work of art theory." With Brians line of thinking the iTunes release should only be released as a "buy album only" option without the choice to buy individual songs. That won't happen. Why? They would lose so much money.

I guess what I'm trying to say here is it's okay to be greedy, but don't use art as a shield to cover it up.

Writing what you want to write is different than if it is going to be a single or album or debating how it is going to be released. I can draw a pony or I can draw a pin up. Those of my rights as an artist. If you want to buy it or not is up to you.

So thinking of how it is going to be released is also the rights as an artist. I do posters. I hate small jpegs. I show people my sketches all the time and if one would take those and show everyone the small jpeg as a representation of the work I would be pissed. Yes, people will see jpegs of my work. I had a store swipe a design, print it large for a window display, and they kept my name on it. Sure, it was my work but it was out of context and represented poorly. It bothered me. But I did know that the original, how I wanted it to be released, version was out there as how I wanted to be presented. If people cared they could see the piece as originally intended.

Springsteen complained about the misuse. Petty is miffed that American Girl is being used by Bachman's campaign. Some musicians have sued campaigns (and won) over usage rights to those songs. Jackson Brown, I believe, did. Yes, the artist's work is going to be misinterpreted, misused, and shit talked. But at least the artist should have the respect to have that work released as they want first. Not have that work judged that wasn't presented as they want.

Certain songs are made to be "the single" because of judgements made by the label and band. Some songs are B-sides, compilation tracks, out takes, etc... because the creator wanted them to be. Some of my favorite songs were never properly released and ended up as live bootlegs only. That is the artists decision. How much more awesome is Biloxi Parish going to be when properly released?

Take the Napster argument by Lars from Metallica. He wasn't angry per se about the live recordings - he was upset about the original recordings from albums. Why (besides the money)? He did not like how poorly they sounded. It was a bastardization of his work. It did him a disservice.

The DJ playing a shitty copy of a song before it was supposed to be released did The Horrible Crowes a disservice.